Full interview transcript.

Gauri Mangala  

My name is Gauri Mangala and I'm a fellow at Hedgerow Theatre Company. I'm joined today by Nicole Sardella, who is an Audio Describer in the Philadelphia area for theater and other live events. Nicole, thank you so much for taking the time to talk.

Nicole Sardella  

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Gauri Mangala  

So Nicole, how does somebody get into Audio Descriptive work in the first place?

Nicole Sardella  

Well, I'll tell you a little bit about my story. When I was in college, I interned for ArtReach, which, if you're not familiar with - ArtReach is a nonprofit in Philly, whose mission is really to make the arts accessible for everyone. And I had interned at Art Reach for about two years. And then I received a phone call from one of the staff members at the time, who asked me if I would be interested in getting trained in Audio Description. And I immediately said yes. I had seen Audio Description previously, in terms of my work through our reach and it combines pretty much everything I love. So I said 'Yes' and that was in 2012. And I've been doing it ever since.

Gauri Mangala  

So you came at it from this angle of… you wanted to create access in theater. And then this was the avenue for that. For you, was that coming more from like the access end or coming at it from the artistic end?

Nicole Sardella  

I'd say largely access. I mean, I'm long long retired from my performing arts career. But that's kind of how I found out about ArtReach was through performing arts. And then I realized, like, what an incredible organization it was, the work was just... Yeah, it really resonated with me and with what I want to do and how and how important I think access is. So it really came from, in large part, the access part of it and having a background in, and I say background like very loosely, in theater, performing arts, dance, music, all has really helped, at least in the beginning, the transition of Audio Description, because I had sort of a base level understanding. And now as I've continued to grow my practice of Audio Description, I've moved into visual art space, opera space, and continuing to just expand out what the possibility of Audio Description is in all of these spaces.

Gauri Mangala  

What, at its core, is audio description attempting to do?

Nicole Sardella  

I've been thinking about recently this way, as deconstructing what is visual and reconstructing it with words. So essentially, you're taking something that's largely visual, almost always very visual. So for example, a play and you're distilling what are the most important actions or lighting cues or set movements or whatever is the most important part that's going on on the stage. And then you're putting words to it, for people who are blind or low vision or visually impaired. And in doing that, you're providing an accessibility service to make that performance which would otherwise be inaccessible to people accessible Because a lot of a lot of mediums are largely, I would say, visual in terms of how they're portrayed. So one example is that actions happen. Maybe a character in Twelfth Night, for example, is eavesdropping, so you're not supposed to hear them. So how else would a person who is blind low vision or visually impaired know that that character's on stage, but for Audio Description or, you know, understanding it later that they were on stage at that time, but then, you know, really not. It provides opportunity to really bring people into the story.

Gauri Mangala  

I, I'm thinking about it now. And it's reminding me of when you're in a read through and someone, maybe the director, or the stage manager is reading the cues since we're all sitting around the table and no one's putting it on stage. In terms of how much you or any Audio Describer is speaking during the show, how important is it to work together with knowing when the cast is going to be reading out dialogue so that we're not hearing multiple things at once, as an audience member?

Nicole Sardella  

Yeah, so Audio Description, I would say has a few very steadfast principles that you work with all regardless of the medium. One of them... It's, I would say it's my like Audio Describer catchphrase, but it's "say what you see." And then the other, I would say primarily in the performing arts world, as it relates to theater, and any even recorded mediums is "don't speak over the actors." So you really have, like a very short amount of time to say a lot of things. So one, in live theater, as everyone who's seen live theater before knows, the pacing is different every night, even, like, at all levels of theater at Broadway, at a local theater companies at any, any level. I mean, even if the applause lasts for a second longer in one place, the pacing is different. So there or the laughter lasts longer, or you know, it's live theater! So anything can happen. I've had people you know yell in the middle of shows or technical difficulties, so many things can happen. So you really have to deeply understand the show and sort of the generalities of the pacing, and know where you have the breaks in dialogue. And generally, I keep my Audio Description to just a few seconds, unless there's a longer gap of time that I'm aware of, but generally there is not. So keeping it really short is important and keeping it succinct, because you really do not have a lot of time. And, and you're really trying to balance a lot of priorities, which are being as descriptive and clear and vivid as possible, while balancing like a limited use of words. And very limited time. 

Gauri Mangala  

Yeah, for sure. Is it important to describe, in a show like Twelfth Night, for example, where there's 15 cast members? Is it important to be giving visual descriptions of what everyone looks like? Racially, hair, costume, all of that? Or is that less important than knowing where people are on stage?

Nicole Sardella  

The way I balanced that is by giving notes at the beginning of the show. So I think with 15 characters, it does become a little bit of information overload. So, I would say, like probably the primary, six, seven-ish, eight people, characters really, depending on the time, also how familiar, one of the interesting parts about Audio Description is if you're able to talk to people beforehand, you can understand and know how familiar they are with the cast or with the company or even like the show itself. So Twelfth Night is like a well known show. So maybe for Twelfth Night, people already know, you know, the main characters are, you know, well a quartet, and then maybe like three, four other people. So you're doing kind of a little bit of the history and people knowing it does a little bit of the work for you. 

But in a show that's maybe brand new to people, or it's not kind of one of the tried and true. The balance and the thought behind it is different. I think what's very interesting to me about Audio Description, is that every show has its own different unique approach. I've described the same shows multiple times. The approach is different. And I think like different with each company, but even the same performance is different, you know, years later, because you're learning more, and you're deciding, you know, what's important, what's not, what's less important, not what's not important, but for a show like Twelfth Night and for shows, in general, I think it is important to describe what the cast looks like, because that is a visual component that a sighted audience member is taking in. And they're seeing and they're observing. And so for me, it's important to include that information and my style of how I've done it has evolved since I started Audio Describing. 

Now my practice is to reach out to the company and the cast of the show and ask them to provide their own self descriptions. Because I think it's really important to give people the opportunity to identify how they would like to be identified. And for me, as you know, I'm a white woman in her 30s. And I want to give people the opportunity if that's something that they're interested in, and if they're not, that's obviously totally fine. And it's up to each individual person. But I always think it's important to open the door, because I think it's so intuitive to do and as COVID has happened and theaters have slowed down and I have slowed down, I've had time to reflect on my Audio Description practices and actually to work closer with theaters than I used to. So that has been a really, I think positive outcome of that.

Gauri Mangala  

What beyond, you know, as you said, reaching out to cast members, what is the prep that goes into going to auto describe, like showing up on the day? Do you read the play? Do you try to see a video of it beforehand?

Nicole Sardella  

Yeah, so my Audio Description prep depends on the show. But generally, I'll see the show, I would say one to three times, largely more on the side of two to three. And each time I see a show, I'll take notes on different components. So the amount of prep that goes into it, in part depends on like, the, I don't know if this is exactly the right word. But the 'scope' of the show, like a show like Aladdin, for example, I think a very specifically that has like 10s of costume changes per character, really elaborate sets, really elaborate costumes, like, just or like any of those like big Disney Broadway shows that have so much going on. That will be on - Lion King, Beauty and a Beast - that's on the higher end of prep. Whereas like a show, that's more of sort of a black box type of set, where the set sort of the same throughout, that's sort of less notes, because there's just like less things. 

So generally, I'll see the show, like I said, 1 to 3 times, sometimes more. And during the first show, if it's a three show prep, for me, what I'll start with is the set, because generally, it's much, to me, very intricate, and there's so much going on. And there's also a lot of set changes, so it's easier to start with the set. And then if I can I'll sprinkle in some of the actors and their costumes. In addition to that, if I've never seen a show before, so Twelfth Night, I'm familiar with the plot. So it wasn't so much understanding the plot for Twelfth Night, but for other shows, it's trying to understand the plot, who the characters are in relation to each other, what actions are really important, what moments are important, where are there breaks, and then making notes of all of that. And then the second show, I personally will take notes on the costumes, and the characters and sort of their, like I said who they are to each other, while again, really going through and trying to identify good places for description. And a lot of times I mean, I'm not an expert in anything. So a lot of times I'm researching, if it's a period piece, for example, what is this specific article of clothing, what is the name of this wall style, what is the name of this prop, I have the most random Google search history ever, "1910s hair styles", there's just so much random things that I really want to get the right name of and be able to find a good way to describe it. So that's all kind of underneath all of the prep. And then third show is when I identify anything that's missing. So sometimes maybe I didn't quite get a measurement, or I missed a costume change or something. And then I'll just practice the description in my head, I used to record it, and then play it back when I first started so that I could, One: hear myself and Two: identify where I was stepping over lines. But now the benefit of doing it for 10 years, you can moreso do it in your head and you don't have to record it.

Gauri Mangala  

Right. From your experiences with it, are you usually Audio Describing for people that have always had low vision or always been blind? Or is it more people that used to have sight and are now developing low vision or now blind?

Nicole Sardella  

I would say it's really a mix. I think a lot of times people, even people who have lost their vision or even when they were young, had some vision throughout their lifetime. So what's interesting about that, in particular, is like the question always comes up, which is like 'how do you describe color to people who are blind and have never seen color?' And there's Molly Burke, who is a blind TikTok content creator, explains it extremely well and she recommended this book about color and blindness. But so  I'm totally full credit to Molly, but what in my experience is that people have associations with color beyond what it physically looks like, like beyond what it looks like it, it means and represents something else. So it represents a feeling or texture or a memory or an emotion. And so color can mean so much more and it's like color in and of itself and like in relation to other parts of the show. So in like Romeo and Juliet, the Montagues and the Capulets generally are wearing different color schemes and they're all but they're all wearing the same colors. And the same, with West Side Story. You know, there are certain ways that colors used to identify sociation. And and or to identify time period, or an emotion or character or a character's personality. So even though people may not, you know, necessarily picture a specific color, I think there's still so much that can be said by saying that color.

Gauri Mangala  

Yeah, and I think just talking to people that do design with color, so costume designers, lighting designers, set designers, they're often trying to evoke those same emotions. Anyway, like, I know, my friend, who's a costume designer always tells me that whenever she sees anybody in blue, she's like, well, they better be like, the most affluent person in the show. Because that's what it's trying to represent. Yeah, so yeah, if anything, they're getting, people that are able to just distill that down quicker to the emotions, might be getting to the heart of it faster. 

Nicole Sardella  

Yes! Yes. 

Gauri Mangala  

What do you think, for a person who, you know, say, like myself, who doesn't currently see need to, you know, seek out Audio Description in my art going experiences? Why should I care about it? Why should I find it important, both as a patron of the arts and someone who works in the arts?

Nicole Sardella  

I think, at its core, the arts are a human right for everyone. The arts are for everyone. And Audio Description eliminates one solitary barrier to accessibility. And there are so many more barriers. But Audio Description can eliminate one. And for someone who is sighted and doesn't need Audio Description to experience the piece, Audio Description, I think provides sighted audience members with sort of a distillation of the important parts of any type of work. So I recently did Audio Description at an art gallery of an exhibit that was there for a period of time. And as part of the experience for people who were studying the art, they had them kind of almost write their own Audio Descriptions of what the piece was to kind of distill really what's important. And then they listened to my Audio Description, and then really talked about it and discuss, like, what that was and what that experience was. 

And I think Audio Description, and accessibility in general for theater is of the utmost importance, because what is art if you're excluding a group of people that can very easily be included, just through Audio Description, and this very straightforward service, where a trained Audio Describer essentially just puts words towards visual, I think that it's a really vital service. And I think that the sort of introduction to Audio Description in terms of like what it requires of a theater and is very little. It basically just requires me, or any Audio Describer you know, in my case, it would be me, but any Audio Describer, and tickets, an outlet, and a place to sit. And it's so straightforward. And I understand, you know, people are apprehensive to change, because it's new to some people. And I totally get that. But I would encourage anyone who is interested in Audio Description, thinking about it, anyone who thinks they would be... thinks they would enjoy it, because it's really so deeply rewarding to pursue it because it's such a great service. And I think that it's really essential. And I would love to see Audio Description only continue to grow, especially in Philly, but everywhere.

Gauri Mangala  

What can theaters like Hedgerow and other theaters in Philadelphia do, or around the world really, do for Audio Describers to make their job easier? Or also just more colorful. Is it more similar to what you're saying at the art gallery? Is it like scenic designers and costume designers giving you write ups about what they think is important about their shows? Is there… more important places for you to sit? What can be done to make the work better?

Nicole Sardella  

I think the more that the Audio Describer or, like accessibility in general, not just Audio Description, I would say is part of the process from the ground up is better. Like having a… just having someone who - like a describer or an ASL interpreter or someone who focuses on accessibility - involved from the beginning. Like from the beginning of the production to advise on how that particular, you know, maybe that scene or those choices or whatever impact accessibility, because especially for Audio Description, so much of dialogue and scene transitions are so quick, and having the space to sort of breathe. And that is, for me, so great. 

And I mean, in addition to thinking about accessibility as a broader picture of like, is our space accessible? Is it accessible to get here? Are ticket prices accessible? Are restrooms accessible? How are we reaching out to the community and creating space for people, especially like coming back from the pandemic? I mean, so many people, I think, are still like, well, first of all, the pandemic is still going on. And so many people are still like, you know, feeling that maybe it's not necessarily the right time. And I think maybe reaching out to those audiences and continuing to build those audiences so that when people are ready, the theaters can really welcome them with open arms. 

And I think the more involved that an Audio Describer is from the beginning, like, I've seen it, in my own work, it only is better, and thinking about, like, how to expand Audio Description services, and expand the scope of what it is, I think, is really interesting, too, because what I've started to do is record those pre show notes that I was talking about that describe the steps, the characters, the costumes, and the theaters will host them on their website, so that people can access them prior to the show if they would like and reaching out to companies to ask the actors to self describe in their own voice so that when people listen to the pre show notes, there are self descriptions of the actors and their own voice. And then I'll just describe their costumes if they don't describe them. And then, and then having the sets pre recorded. And so if someone lets just say is running, as life happens, right? Someone's running a little late, this is mostly me. But is like running late and, and can listen to those notes in the car, instead of having to be at the theater, 30 minutes early to get seated and listen to the notes. I mean, that's yet another barrier. And so being able to, I just think, remove more and more barriers. That is what I think about all the time. And so trying to kind of understand that, and really understanding the audience, I think is so important, too. But part of that comes from these partnerships with theaters individually, and people in the community and community organizations that serve, in my case, in my case as an Audio Describer are people who are being able to really like, you know, put it together to create the successful experience for everyone.

Gauri Mangala  

Yeah, so I think that's, that's a really good point of, you know, putting that out beforehand. I mean, in the same way that we put out pictures of actors and the set to show as a preview, why not preview it for the audio listener who maybe, maybe it's not even from the case of like, "oh, I need this to be able to consume it." But even just like "on a drive, I can listen to it while I'm driving" is a really, really great way of looking at it. Nicole, thank you so much for this. This is super cool, just for myself, selfishly, but also to the wider, Hedgerow community to learn a little bit more about Audio Description services.

Nicole Sardella  

Thank you.

Gauri Mangala  

Talking to Nicole about Audio Description, was so insightful and to have these practices of access like Audio Description, but also Relaxed Performances, Pay-What-You-Can, Interpreted Performances can really make all the difference in terms of breaking barriers and providing space for people of all backgrounds to come and consume and enjoy art not just theater, but art galleries, opera, dance. I'm so glad that we got to learn more about Audio Description together and I hope to catch you at an Audio Described event at Hedgerow soon.

Published 25 August 2022